Magic and the Supernatural in the Ancient World

Discussion Questions

Michelle Arens marens@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu

1. Was magic ritual based on religious mystery cult ritual or vice versa?
2. What can we infer from the Greek words for magic and mystery cult ritual in the ancient texts? Were the two ideas the same or different in antiquity?
3. Obviously the rites of passage for the initiate into cult priesthood were superior to the rites of passage for the members of the mystery cult. They were also very different in origin and processes. Since membership in the mystery cult is for the masses while priesthood is for the individual, where does the comparison lay for the magician? The miracleworker? The diviner?

Derek Pepiak:dpepiak@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu

How popular were the mystery cults of Greek and Roman times? How large of a following did they have?
Were any of the object used in magic also used in the mystery cults?
Were the mystery cults viewed in a negative way like magic was?

Kate Bolin--kbolin@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu

Can a comparison really be made between the mystery cults and magic? I know it seems like a good idea, since they were both so secretive, but are they comparable?
Could the mystery cults be an example of how magic and religion are, essentially, the same thing?
Why does Lucian have to be initiated into the other sects of the Isis mystery cult? Isn't one enough?

Jason Lapkin

The texts seem to avoid this, so what is magical about the mystery cults besides their terminology?
What motivations were there for joining a mystery cult?
The only account of the actual proceedings of a M. cult is Apuleus' fiction. How much do we really know about these sects of Greco-Roman religion?

Jay Munsch wmunsch@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu

Are the mysteries of native Greek gods more or less likely to perform magical rites than the mysteries of foreign gods?
What does the depiction of Isis in the golden ass tell us about the belief in the power of foreign gods?
Is it possible that authors who depicted mystery rites included magic as a way to discredit that mystery or is the converse true?

Nick Backer: nbacker@mailhost.tcs.tulane.deu

Graf does a fine job of explaining the similarities between magic and mysteries, but his exploration into the differences between the two seems inconclusive.
Is Betz's point in his article on magic and religion, that the key to differentiating between the two is in the fact that magicians assimilated other traditions of cults without understanding these traditions? Haven't religions also taken in other traditions? His conclusion seems lacking and I would like it explained.
How do anthropologists know that magicians edited the Greek Magical Papyri, and that only the most important magical instructions were included? Is this speculation?

Bob Fraser:rfraser@...

1. When people were involved in mystery cults, do you think that they really believed what they were a part of or was it more of a club rather than a religion, something to pass the time and be a part of in the society?
2. Out of the three commonalities between mystery cults and magic(contact with the divine, initiation and secrecy) which do you think played a larger role in each of the two groups?
3. Did being in a mystery cult keep the involved persons in the perameters of society as that of the witches due to the fact that they were secretive and queit with respect to the activities that took place within the group?